Still people render judgements without having seen all of the models in the set.
There are 895 pieces in 10191 and 956 pieces in 10192. I know that’s not as many pieces as Cafe corner or similar, but our sets use more specialty pieces like canopies and wheels, which cost more than bulk brick.
Rising oil prices are going to have an effect on the prices of all lego sets in the not too distant future.
wusmand
David: it is $100 for both sets
David
It’s $100 each set.
And yes I can render an OPINION before we see all of the sets. There are no new torsos, or computers, it’s just stickers. For $100 I can just buy the few pieces I need and make my own.
I would be a whole lot more thrilled about the sets if they were separate and not all joined together.
The most expensive piece LEGO produces is the printed minifig.
So I guess you could’ve had printed minifigs and computers if you didn’t mind paying $100 for a 400pc set.
David
Right because torsos would lower the price count by 400 pieces, that’s stupid.
There are already torsos on LEGO Factory, they cost 62 cents. Even if these new torsos cost $2.50 a piece, there are only 4 of them, that would be a whole $10 in a $100 set.
hoodedhootershookerrs
um,does CARL JUNIOR BURGERS ring a bell at the star logo???
Kevoh
I think Mark knows more about this than you, Dave. Just saying…
Yes, I exaggerated the hypothetical cost. I was trying to make a point.
We’re not talking about unprinted torsos, or high volume torsos that have appeared in other LEGO sets.
The cost to produce unique printed minifig torsos for a low-volume set would be fairly high, and the sets would cost even more than they do now for fewer parts. These sets aren’t going to be sold at Target or Wal-Mart or Toys R Us, so LEGO can’t recoup the cost through volume.
There’s also the issue of whether it’s even worth it for LEGO to bother printing the torsos vs. the cost and whether they’d sell.
But let’s not let facts stand in the way of our complaints.
wusmand
Arrrg, i wish i could just throw away the 100 dollars, and make it $40 each!
Moderated
Well Grand Admiral, I am not amused with your persistence to advocate product mediocrity. If this new space line is mostly going to have stickers and no printed parts then I am one Lego spender who is very disappointed. This space theme is already starting out as a cheap, cut corners product line and it is not even available for purchase yet (March 6, 2008). This is another sign of a good product idea becoming crap!!! Stickers do not wear well, they peal after awhile, and if they are spread over two or more pieces of Lego the separation of these bricks starts to crumple, rip and crease the sticker. In the years mainly from 2003 and prior, the Lego pieces had mostly printed designs on them and they looked and lasted much better! So if it costs more to print on bricks instead of issuing just stickers, could the Lego ambassadors relate this message to the company:
>
“Instead of spending money on creating all types of different Lego themes, particularly corny stupid novelty themes like Sponge Bob that do not sell well, reduce the themes to a much smaller group, and use the money that is saved and put it into more intricate quality design. For the Lego product this means the return to printed bricks, printed slopes, printed tiles, printed bricks modified etc… Do not try and be a product that is an “everything theme,” instead stick to a core product line.”
>
But will the Lego ambassadors relate this message? Well…. I doubt it!
>
The current manger of the Lego Company may be doing a good job managing the company for the sake of cost savings, and improved efficiency, following a straight line taking charge and making the others obey commands. But it seems that the Lego Company has now become only concerned about numbers, output and production, towards an end only for profit and nothing else. Within the Lego product there seems to be a fading emphasis on design and attention to details, and the essence of making the product into an expression of art, into something greater is now sadly becoming lost and forgotten.
“Moderated” (not by me):
As this blog’s creator, administrator, and the resident LEGO Ambassador, I can assure you that feedback like yours does get communicated to The LEGO Company.
However, I’m not confident that you have all the facts. On what sales figures do you base your claim that SpongeBob hasn’t sold well? Also, stickers have been a common component of LEGO sets since the 1970s. Like you, I prefer printed elements, but 2003 is not the magic year.
As to the work that Jørgen Vig Knudstorp has been doing for LEGO, do bear in mind that LEGO is a corporation, not a non-profit organization. If the company doesn’t make money, they can’t continue selling the little plastic bricks we’re all so clearly passionate about.
David & “Moderated”:
For heaven’s sake, give Mark (Grand Admiral) a break, will ya? He’s a fan just like you and me, and I’m confident that he and Chris did the best they could with their designs under the constraints imposed by the design process. As Mark said, you haven’t even seen the full sets yet.
2) Blank minifigs and no computer tiles whatsoever
Given that choice, I decided to make the best of what I was offered. I designed the stickers in Adobe Illustrator and sent them to LEGO for use in the set.
I did not choose stickers over printing. I do not prefer stickers over printing. Printing new minifigs was not an option.
Being familar with their work, these sets should more than please both in piece count, repetition and model ingenuity.
Perhaps for comparison we could see a side by side with Moderated’s created sets? It would be interesting to see how the design elements differ from… oh. Right. Nevermind.
mike yoder
I might be alone in this, but I prefer the flexibility of stickers over the rigidity of printed parts, provided the stickers are printed on clear sticker sheets. With the printed piece, it must be integrated into the MOC during the design stage: you must know what printed elements you want to use, and find a way to work that piece into the MOC. With stickers, you can build the creation first, and then “decorate” it any way you wish, putting the stickers on any piece you wish, in any orientation you wish. Most of my printed parts end up getting the Brasso treatment, and I gotta tell you that removing printing is more difficult than cleaning up after a sticker.
I have stickered parts that are 4-5 years old now, and show very little signs of deterioration. All of my printed parts from my childhood are so beat up, I would never or rarely use then in a MOC. I fail to see the advantage, but YMMV.
I think this project is brilliant, fun, and an honor to the AFOL world in general and an honor to Admiral Giddens and the Grand Admiral in specific. I will but these sets happily.
thwaak
I must admit that I missed the information that said the sneak peaks where not the entirety of the set(s) to come. I thought what we’ve seen so far is all there is to it.
Now knowing this, I take back my previous statements (here and elsewhere) of disappointment, and reserve judgement until I’ve seen everything.
Brent, it’s people like you who give me hope for the Internets…
thwaak
Thank you, Dez, but I wouldn’t count on me for your hope. I’m 36 years old, and I have been on the internet since 1993, applying an out-dated idea of respect, honesty, and politeness to my dealings with others, whether on-line or in person. I’m afraid I’m a dying breed.
I’m not giving anyone a break as I’m expressing my opinion.
I’m sure they did do the best they could with what LEGO told them to do, my problem is more with LEGO on these sets than the designers.
LEGO is the one that made sticker torsos for $100 set. For that we should get more than 4 minifigures.
LEGO also made the set $100. Like I have said numerous times several smaller sets would be better.
Brad
I would love to see an astronaut fig wearing the blue plaid shirt. Look at Firefly’s costumes or Han’s outfit in Ep. IV: might be a good way to suggest that the tech is advanced enough that no one needs to show it off or worry about it.
David, I don’t think anyone was trying to say you shouldn’t or weren’t allowed to state your opinion. One can certainly have a negative impression based on a single picture. On the other hand, a good judgment is backed up by knowledge–and we’ve only seen a fraction (50%?) of the sets.
My bigger beef is that it seems like some are taking this set as an example of massive failure on the part of LEGO Group. I’m not at all convinced that ‘stickers vs. printed’ represents everything they’re doing wrong. It seems to be a fannish belief that all a company has to do is change one or two specific practices–which are so clearly ‘wrong’–in order to become good (in most cases, good means “like it used to be”).
For my part I dislike stickers only because I go nuts trying to apply them exactly right! If they’re even a bit off, I’ll have to force myself to ignore it every time I look at the model. I’m the same way when I place 1×1 tiles (every piece this not squared drives me nuts if I don’t try to ignore it).
Horace
David, I don’t see why you have to go on rants about something you apparently do not have all the information. If you are so against it just don’t buy it when it comes out.
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These look great. I particularly like the Star Justice logo.
Win.
Just hope there’s more printed parts rather than stickers.
They’re mostly stickers. Printed parts are very expensive to produce.
The only printed elements are the generic 2×2 slope computers and the 2×2 round tiles with grating pattern.
Haha, it’s Admiral Giddens.
Still hardly show anything, and still not worth $100.
Still people render judgements without having seen all of the models in the set.
There are 895 pieces in 10191 and 956 pieces in 10192. I know that’s not as many pieces as Cafe corner or similar, but our sets use more specialty pieces like canopies and wheels, which cost more than bulk brick.
Rising oil prices are going to have an effect on the prices of all lego sets in the not too distant future.
David: it is $100 for both sets
It’s $100 each set.
And yes I can render an OPINION before we see all of the sets. There are no new torsos, or computers, it’s just stickers. For $100 I can just buy the few pieces I need and make my own.
I would be a whole lot more thrilled about the sets if they were separate and not all joined together.
Yeah, ok.
The most expensive piece LEGO produces is the printed minifig.
So I guess you could’ve had printed minifigs and computers if you didn’t mind paying $100 for a 400pc set.
Right because torsos would lower the price count by 400 pieces, that’s stupid.
There are already torsos on LEGO Factory, they cost 62 cents. Even if these new torsos cost $2.50 a piece, there are only 4 of them, that would be a whole $10 in a $100 set.
um,does CARL JUNIOR BURGERS ring a bell at the star logo???
I think Mark knows more about this than you, Dave. Just saying…
Yes, I exaggerated the hypothetical cost. I was trying to make a point.
We’re not talking about unprinted torsos, or high volume torsos that have appeared in other LEGO sets.
The cost to produce unique printed minifig torsos for a low-volume set would be fairly high, and the sets would cost even more than they do now for fewer parts. These sets aren’t going to be sold at Target or Wal-Mart or Toys R Us, so LEGO can’t recoup the cost through volume.
There’s also the issue of whether it’s even worth it for LEGO to bother printing the torsos vs. the cost and whether they’d sell.
But let’s not let facts stand in the way of our complaints.
Arrrg, i wish i could just throw away the 100 dollars, and make it $40 each!
Well Grand Admiral, I am not amused with your persistence to advocate product mediocrity. If this new space line is mostly going to have stickers and no printed parts then I am one Lego spender who is very disappointed. This space theme is already starting out as a cheap, cut corners product line and it is not even available for purchase yet (March 6, 2008). This is another sign of a good product idea becoming crap!!! Stickers do not wear well, they peal after awhile, and if they are spread over two or more pieces of Lego the separation of these bricks starts to crumple, rip and crease the sticker. In the years mainly from 2003 and prior, the Lego pieces had mostly printed designs on them and they looked and lasted much better! So if it costs more to print on bricks instead of issuing just stickers, could the Lego ambassadors relate this message to the company:
>
“Instead of spending money on creating all types of different Lego themes, particularly corny stupid novelty themes like Sponge Bob that do not sell well, reduce the themes to a much smaller group, and use the money that is saved and put it into more intricate quality design. For the Lego product this means the return to printed bricks, printed slopes, printed tiles, printed bricks modified etc… Do not try and be a product that is an “everything theme,” instead stick to a core product line.”
>
But will the Lego ambassadors relate this message? Well…. I doubt it!
>
The current manger of the Lego Company may be doing a good job managing the company for the sake of cost savings, and improved efficiency, following a straight line taking charge and making the others obey commands. But it seems that the Lego Company has now become only concerned about numbers, output and production, towards an end only for profit and nothing else. Within the Lego product there seems to be a fading emphasis on design and attention to details, and the essence of making the product into an expression of art, into something greater is now sadly becoming lost and forgotten.
“Moderated” (not by me):
As this blog’s creator, administrator, and the resident LEGO Ambassador, I can assure you that feedback like yours does get communicated to The LEGO Company.
However, I’m not confident that you have all the facts. On what sales figures do you base your claim that SpongeBob hasn’t sold well? Also, stickers have been a common component of LEGO sets since the 1970s. Like you, I prefer printed elements, but 2003 is not the magic year.
As to the work that Jørgen Vig Knudstorp has been doing for LEGO, do bear in mind that LEGO is a corporation, not a non-profit organization. If the company doesn’t make money, they can’t continue selling the little plastic bricks we’re all so clearly passionate about.
David & “Moderated”:
For heaven’s sake, give Mark (Grand Admiral) a break, will ya? He’s a fan just like you and me, and I’m confident that he and Chris did the best they could with their designs under the constraints imposed by the design process. As Mark said, you haven’t even seen the full sets yet.
I am not “advocating product mediocrity”.
Here’s the choice we were given by LEGO:
1) Stickers – you can help design them
or
2) Blank minifigs and no computer tiles whatsoever
Given that choice, I decided to make the best of what I was offered. I designed the stickers in Adobe Illustrator and sent them to LEGO for use in the set.
I did not choose stickers over printing. I do not prefer stickers over printing. Printing new minifigs was not an option.
I guess I could have put this torso on the space figs: http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/973pdd
Being familar with their work, these sets should more than please both in piece count, repetition and model ingenuity.
Perhaps for comparison we could see a side by side with Moderated’s created sets? It would be interesting to see how the design elements differ from… oh. Right. Nevermind.
I might be alone in this, but I prefer the flexibility of stickers over the rigidity of printed parts, provided the stickers are printed on clear sticker sheets. With the printed piece, it must be integrated into the MOC during the design stage: you must know what printed elements you want to use, and find a way to work that piece into the MOC. With stickers, you can build the creation first, and then “decorate” it any way you wish, putting the stickers on any piece you wish, in any orientation you wish. Most of my printed parts end up getting the Brasso treatment, and I gotta tell you that removing printing is more difficult than cleaning up after a sticker.
I have stickered parts that are 4-5 years old now, and show very little signs of deterioration. All of my printed parts from my childhood are so beat up, I would never or rarely use then in a MOC. I fail to see the advantage, but YMMV.
I think this project is brilliant, fun, and an honor to the AFOL world in general and an honor to Admiral Giddens and the Grand Admiral in specific. I will but these sets happily.
I must admit that I missed the information that said the sneak peaks where not the entirety of the set(s) to come. I thought what we’ve seen so far is all there is to it.
Now knowing this, I take back my previous statements (here and elsewhere) of disappointment, and reserve judgement until I’ve seen everything.
My apologies.
-Brent
Brent, it’s people like you who give me hope for the Internets…
Thank you, Dez, but I wouldn’t count on me for your hope. I’m 36 years old, and I have been on the internet since 1993, applying an out-dated idea of respect, honesty, and politeness to my dealings with others, whether on-line or in person. I’m afraid I’m a dying breed.
“I guess I could have put this torso on the space figs: http://www.peeron.com/inv/parts/973pdd”
We need more flannel in space!
I can’t wait to see these sets.
I’m not giving anyone a break as I’m expressing my opinion.
I’m sure they did do the best they could with what LEGO told them to do, my problem is more with LEGO on these sets than the designers.
LEGO is the one that made sticker torsos for $100 set. For that we should get more than 4 minifigures.
LEGO also made the set $100. Like I have said numerous times several smaller sets would be better.
I would love to see an astronaut fig wearing the blue plaid shirt. Look at Firefly’s costumes or Han’s outfit in Ep. IV: might be a good way to suggest that the tech is advanced enough that no one needs to show it off or worry about it.
David, I don’t think anyone was trying to say you shouldn’t or weren’t allowed to state your opinion. One can certainly have a negative impression based on a single picture. On the other hand, a good judgment is backed up by knowledge–and we’ve only seen a fraction (50%?) of the sets.
My bigger beef is that it seems like some are taking this set as an example of massive failure on the part of LEGO Group. I’m not at all convinced that ‘stickers vs. printed’ represents everything they’re doing wrong. It seems to be a fannish belief that all a company has to do is change one or two specific practices–which are so clearly ‘wrong’–in order to become good (in most cases, good means “like it used to be”).
For my part I dislike stickers only because I go nuts trying to apply them exactly right! If they’re even a bit off, I’ll have to force myself to ignore it every time I look at the model. I’m the same way when I place 1×1 tiles (every piece this not squared drives me nuts if I don’t try to ignore it).
David, I don’t see why you have to go on rants about something you apparently do not have all the information. If you are so against it just don’t buy it when it comes out.
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